11 Replies Latest reply on Feb 2, 2011 7:42 AM by inevitable01

    Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem

    Rookie

      LD Core: Version 9 SP 2
      OS: Windows Server 2003 ent. 32x

       

      Hi good morning,
      We are having a problem on device name stills appears on the Core server. What we have done is join a workstation on the domain and then install LD client on the device. We are able to see the device on the Core. Then we re image the same unit, join it in the domain, then install LD Client 9. It was succesful, new name appears on the Core, the problem is that the old existing name still exist on the core. How do we handle this kind of issue, can we set the core to check if the MAC address is already existing, and if it is existing it will just update the record in the AD with the new name and scan the application changes?

       

       

      Another issue is that when we check "Manage Local Users and Groups" on a device, it only shows the local account on the device, it does'nt display domain accounts or domain groups.

       

       

      Thanks,
      Joe

        • 1. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
          phoffmann SupportEmployee

          Two answers here:

           

          Re: "Local accounts..."

           

          This is perfectly normal. The LANDesk console doesn't magically turn you into a domain admin (we'd have all manner of IT admins screaming bloody murder if we'd permit you to play around with domain accounts).

           

          It's called "Manage LOCAL accounts and groups" for a reason .

           

          So what you're seeing is perfectly normal .

           

          - Paul Hoffmann

          LANDesk EMEA Technical Lead

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
            phoffmann SupportEmployee

            Re: Inventory stuff:

            ================

            So what you're describing sounds more like a "duplicate device" issue. Let me describe / recap a few key items.

             

            1 - a client has ONE unique ID - much in the way of a Windows SID - that it gets upon the installation of the LANDesk agent. This SID (nearly) always stays at its value (the only exception being the Inventory Service telling it to change - more on that further below). Renaming a device and/or joining or leaving a domain doesn't touch it.

             

            ====================

             

            2 - This Unique ID is *THE* way in which we identify a devce. This is why if you had (for instance) two devices with the same ID, they'd be overwriting each other's entries in the database (simplifying things here).

             

            ====================

             

            3 - Thus, for TWO entries to exist, you must have two separate Device ID's.

             

            So let's call these entries

             

            DEVICE_DOMAIN
            DEVICE_WKS

             

            to seperate them.

             

            ====================

             

            4 - Look at both, DEVICE_WKS and DEVICE_DOMAIN in Inventory, and examine

            ""

            <INVENTORY_ROOT> => Device ID

            ""

             

            ==> This should be a different value for both. Is that the case?

             

            ====================

             

            5 - Check also:

            ""

            <INVENTORY_ROOT> - Last Updated By Inventory Server

            ""

             

            Is it possible that DEVICE_WKS is just a VERY old entry that's not been deleted?

             

            ====================

             

            6 - Finally (you must do this on the Core), in the 32-bit Console, go to CONFIGURE => SERVICES.

             

            Once there, open up the INVENTORY-tab, and click on the DEVICES button (about the middle of the screen).

             

            Now by default you should have these things enabled:

             

            - "Both device names and MAC addresses match"

             

            and

             

            - "Restore Old Device IDs" should be enabled too.

             

            Is this the case? What are your selected options here?

             

            =======================

             

            - Paul Hoffmann

            LANDesk EMEA Technical Lead

            • 3. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
              Rookie

              Hi Paul,

               

                   Thanks for the usual reply. Sorry, got the wrong impression on the "manage local user and groups".

               

                   I can create a query on "Local Users and Groups" and display the members of Administrator group including domain accouts. But when when I " Manage Local

                   Users and Groups" all the domain accounts under the Administrator group Disappear.

               

                   BTW, I found out a way on how to remove duplicate name on the core server through Services> Inventory > Manage Duplicates

               

                   Currently testing it.

               

                  Thanks,

                  Joe

              • 4. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                phoffmann SupportEmployee

                Yes, querying will work (since that uses inventory data, and that's stuff that we READ locally and send to the Core).

                 

                We don't permit modifying anything other than local groups/users, since this would mean (as I indicated above) that anyone with permissions of this tool would in effect become a domain admin.

                 

                Let us know how things get along / if you have any other questions. We'll try to help .

                 

                - Paul Hoffmann

                LANDesk EMEA Technical Lead

                • 5. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                  Rookie

                  Hi Paul,

                   

                       Regarding on the main issue.

                   

                       1. Upon checkin on their device ID, both has unique Device ID.

                       2. On Services, under duplicate devices, by default "Both device names and MAC adresses match" and restore Old device Id's

                   

                       To have a better view.

                   

                       1. I have created a new image on a workstation, naming it JOE-BL and installed LD client on it.

                       2. JOE-BL appeared on the Core Server

                       3. I have formatted JOE-BL and install a new image on the same Computer and named it VINCENT-BL and install LD Client

                       4. VINCENT-BL appeared on the Core Server.

                       5. VINCENT-BL and JOE-BL is on the Core server.

                       6. Services >Inventory> Devices is configured by default "Both"

                      

                   

                       If my understanding is right,

                   

                       1. It wont delete JOE-BL unless they have same Device-ID

                       2. It wont Delete JOE-BL unless Hostname and MAC address are Match with VINCENT-BL

                   

                       Question ( I'm Currently Testing this set up)

                       1. Under Services> Inventory> Devices. I have unchecked "Both device......." and the only ticked box is MAC address Match and Restore Old device ID's. So if this will be the set up, even though there are duplicate device name it wont be deleted. It's parameter will depend on MAC address Match, so if there would be a device with the same MAC address it would delete the old device.

                   

                       2. Another is that under inventory Tab Device_IDs, I only add Computer.Network.NIC Address and uncheck Reject Duplicate Identities.

                  • 6. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                    phoffmann SupportEmployee

                    Hmm - interesting that they have different ID's.

                     

                    OK - so you're delving into Duplicate Device ID detection and such - that's good. Here's how it works in the INVENTORY-tab:

                     

                    ============================

                     

                    The "DEVICE ID's"-button:

                     

                    ==> By default, this is for preventing duplicate device ID's from occuring (a scenario where several PC's have one and the same Device ID). This checks by default for:

                    - COMPUTER.Device name

                    - COMPUTER.Network NIC Address

                     

                    and has "Identity Attribute change" set to "2".

                     

                    What does this mean?

                    - We check for a computer's device name (e.g.: "BOB_PC") and the MAC-address for a device.

                    - Only if BOTH values are different (i.e. "instead of "BOB_PC" we have "TED_PC" AND the MAC-address is different), whilst the DEVICE ID used is the same, we determine this to be a duplicate device.

                     

                    (NOTICE -- at the bottom of this window, the option to "Reject Duplicate Identities" should be ticked/enabled)

                     

                    If that heppens, we mark the device ID in question as "BAD" and *ANY* device coming in with this device ID will be told by the Inventory service to (randomly) generate a new Device ID (since we can't determine who is the "legitimate" owner of the device ID, we just tell everyone to go create a new one).

                     

                    This is how we prevent multiple devices using one device ID.

                     

                    ==================================

                     

                    The "DEVICES"-button

                     

                    You've got the following options:

                     

                    "RESTORE OLD DEVICE ID's" - Yes/no?

                    ==> If we identify a device as "already existing in the database" (more on this in a second), we will tell a device to go and change its DEVICE ID back to the value we already have for it in the database. The idea here is to prevent duplciate entries.

                     

                    How do we identify whether a device is already in the database? That's what the "Remove duplicate when:..." settings are for.

                     

                    The key learning here is to know how the logic works.

                     

                    ""BOTH device names and MAC addresses must match" -- this is an explicist AND statement. If a device's inventory (with a different DEVICE ID) is already in the database (based on DEVICE NAME and the MAC-address), we tell it to use the old device ID.

                     

                    "DEVICE NAMES MATCH" // "MAC-ADDRESSES MATCH"

                    ==> Notice that you can select either of those options, or both. This is an explicit *OR* statement.

                    So if you use this, if EITHER the DEVICE NAME or the MAC-address exists in the database already, we tell it to use the relevant old device ID.

                     

                    This *CAN* be useful for some environments (where for instance host names change upon being re-imaged, for instance). It's very important that you understand / know whether the OR logic (if you want to use both attributes) or the AND logic is more accurate for your environment.

                     

                    =========================

                     

                    So what's all this to do with "removing duplicates"?

                     

                    Well - whe DB maintenance runs (by default, about 23:00 in the evening), we use the settings configured above (i.e. - either MAC-address OR DEVICE-name, or the AND'ed logic) to detect whether we have any duplicates and remove old entries automatically overnight.

                     

                    If you have 2 entries of - say - "BOB_PC" that "survive" a DB-maintenance, chances are that the attributes of your logic didn't grip (for instance, the MAC-address was different).

                     

                    ========================

                     

                    I hope this helps on understanding how this works?

                     

                    - Paul Hoffmann

                    LANDesk EMEA Technical Lead

                    • 7. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                      phoffmann SupportEmployee

                      Joe Vincent C. Chavez wrote:

                       

                           If my understanding is right,

                       

                           1. It wont delete JOE-BL unless they have same Device-ID

                           2. It wont Delete JOE-BL unless Hostname and MAC address are Match with VINCENT-BL

                       

                       

                      Re: 1 -- we don't "delete" devices that share the same device-ID, if anything we over-write such entries. Small but important difference .

                       

                      Re: 2 - Given default settings, this is correct. Because the MAC-address is the same, but the device name is not (and by default BOTH must match in an AND logic), we do not regard the JOE-BL and VINCENT-BL entries as duplicates.

                       

                      So yeah - you've got it .

                       

                       

                      Joe Vincent C. Chavez wrote:

                       

                           Question ( I'm Currently Testing this set up)

                           1. Under Services> Inventory> Devices. I have unchecked "Both device......." and the only ticked box is MAC address Match and Restore Old device ID's. So if this will be the set up, even though there are duplicate device name it wont be deleted. It's parameter will depend on MAC address Match, so if there would be a device with the same MAC address it would delete the old device.

                       

                       

                      If you've ONLY checked MAC-address, we will now exclusively check for MAC-addresses (and devicenames we will not care about). So we will do both - DELETION of old entries and "restore old device ID's" (if needed) based purely on MAC-addresses.

                       

                      If you are likely to be renaming your PC's a lot when re-imaging, this is a sensible way to go.

                       

                           2. Another is that under inventory Tab Device_IDs, I only add Computer.Network.NIC Address and uncheck Reject Duplicate Identities.

                       

                      I would be careful about rejecting duplicate based solely on a single attribute. If you need to replace a network card (say), you will start getting rejections (because the MAC-address changed). I would recommend leaving this option in -- duplicates are ONLY something you should encounter if you do something ill-advise (which is to include the LANDesk agent as part of your image, without making sure to delete the device ID's).

                       

                      This sort of "cloned image" approach could result in ALL your environment sharing a single Unique ID -- this is what this option is designed to combat / fix.

                       

                      - Paul Hoffmann

                      LANDesk EMEA Technical Lead

                      • 8. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                        Rookie

                        Hi Paul,

                         

                             Thank you so much for helping and explaining it to me by details, It is really a big help.

                         

                         

                        Thanks,

                        Joe Vincent C. Chavez

                        Coca-Cola Bottlers Philippines

                        Client Server Engineer

                        • 9. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                          Rookie

                          Hi Paul,

                           

                               Still need help, Im monitoring 20 duplicate entries int the Console, its  been a month and its duplicate is not being deleted, the same settings still applies, only checks MAC address.

                           

                               Same Workstation, same MAC address, unique Device IDs.


                          Thanks,

                          Joe

                          • 10. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                            phoffmann SupportEmployee

                            Hmm - in that case, I would suggest logging a ticket with support (you will want to prepare and compress a full DB-backup), so we can have a look at this in detail.

                             

                            NORMALLY this ends up being some weird DB-issue (since the technology itself hasn't changed in years and is generally quite reliable) -- it ends up being a detail-hunt for what's preventing it to work for those 20 systems.

                             

                            So if the settings are all fine and those device really don't get deleted (more on that in a second), then a support call would be the best way to go ahead here.

                             

                            ===================

                             

                            How to make sure those devices don't get delted?

                             

                            One possibility is that the devices *DO* get deleted, but (for whatever reason/circumstances) go back into the database as duplicates.

                             

                            The way to check up on this being the possibility is the COMPUTER_IDN.

                             

                            If you open up an inventory of a device, in the initial tree, scroll down until you find the field "ID" -- that's the COMPUTER_IDN the unique and sequential identifier (database-side) for a device.

                             

                            Have a look "today" on what the ID's are (for all duplicate entries of a device). Let's assume they are "100" and "200" for argument's sake.

                             

                            Now wait for a day (to let duplicate deletion do its work), and check in at the same time on the next day. Are the ID's still "100" and "200"?

                             

                            If YES ==> Then we don't pick up/delete the duplicate for some reason and we'll need to look at the DB.

                            If NO ==> The duplicate does get deleted, but somehow makes its way back into inventory ... but whatever the problem is, it's not related to duplicate device deletion failing. May still want to bring it up with support (we can have a look at your system) ... maybe we can figure out what's happening to bring in the "new" entry so reliably...

                             

                            - Paul Hoffmann

                            LANDesk EMEA Technical Lead

                            • 11. Re: Problem: Device name still exist on Core and Manage Local And User Groups Problem
                              Rookie

                              Hi Paul,

                               

                                   It is really weird, in some cases it deletes the duplicate but on those 20 workstations nothing happens, Okay, I'll try to document and monitor those devices again and if still no luck I think I really need to log a ticket regarding this issue..

                               

                                   Thanks so much for the usual support.

                               

                              Thanks,

                              Joe Vincent C. Chavez

                              Client Server Engineer

                              Coca-Cola Bottlers Philippines