13 Replies Latest reply on Jun 23, 2011 10:09 AM by MarXtar

    Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?

    Rookie

      My question sounds cryptic or overs implified, and it is. the SitRep:

       

      query 1. searches for computer.software.application suites.application suite.name & version = <version> Result = X

      query 2. searches for computer.software.packages.package.filename (of same application) & version = Result Y

       

      X != Y ... or is almost always never the same

       

      Is this a result of one scannign registry and one scanning actual file system, or how can i be getting mismatch?

       

      I am workign on a migration of this application for an updated server so I need to get a real count of software installs.. application suites resulted in higher count.. but the file name I assume verifies the file is actually installed..

        • 1. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
          Apprentice

          I'm trying to think back now I thought one scanned Add/Remove Program values and the other actual file system as you thought.  Is there any indication in the ldappl3.template file to say what it's scanning for in each scenario?  I've just checked mine but it looks a little empty compared to what I used to see in version 8.  Does it always look a greater value in your results for packages query compared to the package Suite query or vice versa?

          1 of 1 people found this helpful
          • 2. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
            Catalysttgj Expert

            Application Suite = "Add Remove Programs"

             

            Application package is related to actual executable files discovered by both the inventory scanner, and the software monitoring service. The two together produce not only the file versions, product names, etc... but also the usage data related to how many times a specific executable is launched, how long it is used, and who used it.

             

            These two sources of information are not closely tied to each other. This is not landesk's fault but rather the messy nature of product information in the MS Windows world. There is poor data quality in the application package area as a result of this. You will find that there is totally inconsistent data depending on the vendor of a particular software. You'll also find normalization problems throughout. For example, in one area a company name may be totally different than in another. They may have Inc. in one place, and have Incorporated spelled out in another. You'll also find versioning to be pain. An example, Realplayer 10 is the product name, but the file versioning is 6. So you're dealing with the biggest headache there is with software and software licensing. No one is following a standard, and i'd place the blame square on the OS manufacturer for not making software vendors adhere to a standard.

             

            This also segways into LANDesk's attempt to improve things withe ESID data. Unfortunately, it sounds like that hasn't helped much.

             

            Good luck!

            • 3. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
              Catalysttgj Expert

              I forgot to mention that Application package information is the equivalent of right-clicking on an executable file and bringing up properties, and inspecting all the information within.

              • 4. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                Rookie

                so yeah, that is what I was thinking.. and thank you both for confirming it and giving me motive to take next step. Real question is why the totals were mismatching. I found that we only have two versions of the program in our enviroment.. and it seems about 400 or so computers are not reporting the file version but are reporting the registry held version.  since application suites queries don't seem to work with >, <, =<, =>, not like, not exist or whatever, but returns anything "like",  I guess I will have to just sort and drop pc names manually into a task and babysit it..

                 

                kind of feel like this is a bad bug and wonder if it resides in newer version of LDMS. (less this is intended operation)

                • 5. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                  Apprentice

                  Have you tried approaching this from the Software Licensing Tool in Landesk 88?  Searching for the product name should find any variations on the version number then and tell you where and how many are installed.  You could then create a group named after the product e.g.  Adobe, then search for adobe and drag all the results into the group, you could then count up the various copies.  As mentioned above the problem is messy applications not Landesk.  You may have simply run an update or patch on a product and suddenly theres another version/variable of the software

                  • 6. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                    Catalysttgj Expert

                    Make sure you can trust those 400 devices' inventory. What i mean by that is verify that its being honest with you. Check a few of those 400 devices manually for those files that should associate with the uninstall data (add remove programs), and if you find that the files are ACTUALLY there, then i'd say force a full sync'd inventory on those devices. Maybe the data just didn't make it in for some reason. This might cure that. We've seen funky inventory results before for all sorts of things and a lot of times just getting a full sync'd inventory can iron these problems out.

                     

                    Also, if you do manually find that there are files, check the file properties information manually and see if maybe those files are just blank on their versioning. Now, if these are file versions that already report on other machines, then probably this wont be the case, but if this is some specific flavor of an app, there's always the possbility that the vendor did a terrible job of populating all the file property data for that version, and LANDesk inventory is reporting exactly what its seeing which is NOTHING. Very possible. Like i mentioned before, vendors are doing this cowboy style. They're not on any Microsoft leash, which i believe they should be. Software vendors should be adhering to higher standards on how they convey the specifications of their software, and its clear that MS NEVER compelled them to do so. You'll even notice that there is no consistency in "Add Remove Programs" either. Take a look in a computer's registry at "HKLM\SOFTWARE\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Uninstall", and you'll see what i'm talking about. It's a disaster! Some keys will be ProductCodes, many will not.. and even within those keys, there's no real consistency from one product to another. Some populate an install date, others do not. Its just all over the place. LANDesk is trying to help in this area, but looks like its proving to be a hard nut to crack. They have this ESID database in 9.02, but looks like that has not worked out well, and they're supposedly taking it out with SP3, so as you can see this problem is pretty nasty.

                     

                    Good luck!

                    • 7. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                      Rookie

                      Yes, I have compared and matches the reg based query.

                       

                      I ran the task with the same reg based query (application suites) and just dropped the computers left with old version and it pushed to them except the duplicate device names due to reimaging.. (cleanup task I need to do this week) my number of successful installs matches pretty close to the application suites and SLM report.

                       

                      If I could just sort out >, <, =<, or <> with that type of query I would be fine using that from now on..as I like to use policy based pushes that run on a recurring schedule (for machines that pop up when built to get software pushes unattended like) Then again I cannot get product detection to work with reg entries/values all the time anyways. (another issue altogether)

                      • 8. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                        Apprentice

                        Whats the name of the product?  I was wondering if you could query for the product name using 'Like'  Then include in your column layout  'version number' then click on qualifier and make the product the qualifier.  So If I wanted all Word versions I could query for 'Like' Microsoft Word add a column for version number and make the qualifier winword.exe

                         

                         

                        Very good point, you have me thinking now.  It seems a little unlikely but have you got the ldapple.template configured to scan all packages or just the known ones.  It's been a while now but I seem to remember there being a switch in there.  If it was left as purely known packages I was wondering if that would skew the results.

                        • 9. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                          Rookie

                          yeah LD isn't finding the files but they are there on the computers that show up in the apps suites query. I did confirm this on about 20 and called it good after that. (the only exception is the dup names of machines that were reimaged and got a new sid (need to run the task to get rid of those and clean database up her this week anyways). 

                           

                          The files there are the same as all other machines as the install sources were only one of two company wide.. LD just isn't reading it on all machines and reporting back for soem reason.. Cause unknown, but I have it handled manually for now. If I get time I will have to see what is so special about these m,achines and check more logs.

                          • 10. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                            Catalysttgj Expert

                            You might be on to something. We've kept our ldappl file pretty plain jane. The only mods that we really have in there are for some custom registry paths that we have to collect. As far as software, we've not made any changes. On our 9 core, we pretty much just added the custom registry items and left it alone.

                            • 11. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                              Rookie

                              it scans everything so we can tell when more oddball apps start showing up in the wild.. I am wondering however the client version of some of these machiens has anythign to do with this.. just a thought but I want to eliminate that as a possibility... will update

                              • 12. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                                Rookie

                                so pretty much all the machines have the same client version. Looking for another reason.. but until it's found or upgrade to 9.. happy hunting....

                                • 13. Re: Does anyone else with LDMS 8.8 sp3 have issue where queries return different results for same product?
                                  MarXtar ITSMMVPGroup

                                  Launch the scanner manually and use the output to file switch /O=

                                   

                                  Take a look in that file and see what it is picking up in the scan file.  Also check that the LDAPPL file on the machines where it wasn't picking up the file is actually the one that it should have. It's quite possibly they are having an issue with keeping that file up to date.

                                   

                                  Mark McGinn

                                  MarXtar Ltd

                                  http://www.marxtar.com

                                   

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